Posts by Sea Breeze

19

The Share of Religious Americans will continue to decline- New York Times. Why? New Pew Study

by Balaamsass2 in

locally, in northern california i have seen/heard a drop in jw and mainstream church attendance especially in person attendance.

(exception: a new creepy local new-age charismatic/pentecostal group: "bethel church" 11,000 and growing mega church(kundalini yoga/sex combined with prosperity gospel, trumpism, guns, rock music, dancing, glitter, speaking in tongues, and faith healing).. for me this paragraph sums it up regarding jehovah's witnesses: " ...smith described organized religion to me as having become a “polluted” idea in the american mainstream, because of the publicity around sex abuse scandals and financial malfeasance in many different faiths in the ’80s and ’90s as millennials came of age.

“the scandals violated most of the virtues believed to make religion good,” smith wrote.

Sea Breeze

Looks like the Spaghetti monster church has been declinng too.

On July 24, 2013, CNS News reported: "Atheism is in decline worldwide, with the number of atheists falling from 4.5% of the world’s population in 1970 to 2.0% in 2010 and projected to drop to 1.8% by 2020, according to a new report by the Center for the Study of Global Christianity at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in South Hamilton, Mass.

On September 27, 2014 in a blog post entitled The Atheist Disillusionment, the prominent atheist PZ Myers declared:

“

"I will make a prediction, right here and now.... The number of people identifying as atheists will stagnate or even shrink, because organized atheism is happily in the process of destroying itself with regressive social attitudes, scandals, and their bizarre focus on irrelevant metaphysical differences that don’t help people...Unless we change. I don’t know that we can".

Atheists as a percentage of the world's population have declined since 1970 and global atheism is expected to face long term decline.

On March 15, 2024, Frontier Partners International reported concerning global atheism: "Simultaneously, atheism, which once saw a peak around 1970 with 165 million adherents, is on the decline. The current growth trend for atheism is -0.12 percent, with their number falling from 147 million in 2020 to 146 million in 2024.

10

The Apostles Creed vs. Watchtower

by Sea Breeze in

the apostles creed could be recited in less than a minute in latin.

it was like an ancient youtube video clip: christianity in less than a minute.

it is very ancient, reaching back to the 200's.

Sea Breeze

@ SBF

I have never heard a Jehovah's Witness say the words: "I believe in Jesus our Lord", except when challenged by Christians they are encountering.

When JW's talk among themselves, it's all Jehovah, Jehovah, Jehovah, Jehovah.

"He descended into hell".

JW's would NEVER say this. His tomb was above ground. There was nothing to descend into according to WT indoctrinated JW's.

I couldn't help but notice how you forgot the most important point that applies to us:

10. the forgiveness of sins,

Wt. teaches that since 1935 new believers are not justified (no forgiveness of sins).

JW's believe in working for their Salvation and reject the New Covenant for the forgiveness of sins, like you.

I have asked you many times to justify your personal rejection of the new covenant "for the forgiveness of sins" Jesus offered in Mt. 26: 27-28. But you refuse to defend your position. Why?

Why not just come out and say that you believe in another way of Salvation other than the new covenant, the one that carries the blood value of God's only-begotten?

Isn't that an accurate evualation of your position?

26

What are some of the more exceptional self-authenticating claims made by Jehovah’s Witnesses?

by Vanderhoven7 in

let's start the ball rolling with two connected claims.. the religion of jehovah’s witnesses is the one true religion.

all other religions are satanic, including all the churches of christendom..

Sea Breeze

JW's are the only church who claim they were specifically named in scripture: THE Faithful and Discreet Salve.

4

JWs and the Lord's Prayer

by punkofnice in

how often do you hear the lord's prayer at the meetings or in jw homes?.

i don't know if they revised their stance with the new leaders in america, but i don't recall it having much weight when i were a wee'un.. i think the nwt said, 'pray then, this way....'.

so, jesus gave instructions on how to pray, as in actual words to say.......so the jws don't?

Sea Breeze

They stop when they get to the part that says "let your kingdom come". Then they start berating Christians for not recognizing the Watchtower as the physical manifestation of the kingdom of God on earth.

JW's are apalled that others do not recognize the "clear evidence" that Jesus has appointed them as rulers over all the earth in his stead. Their message is: now you have to do business with us, not Jesus if you want life..... just exactly as Jesus predicted.

Many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he!’ and they will lead many astray. - Mark 13: 6

10

The Apostles Creed vs. Watchtower

by Sea Breeze in

the apostles creed could be recited in less than a minute in latin.

it was like an ancient youtube video clip: christianity in less than a minute.

it is very ancient, reaching back to the 200's.

Sea Breeze

The Apostles Creed could be recited in less than a minute in Latin. It was like an ancient YouTube video clip: Christianity in less than a minute. It is very ancient, reaching back to the 200's. But, Watchtower would have a problem with most of it.

1. I believe in God the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.

Right off the bat, there is a problem. Wt would never use the phrase God the father

2. I believe in Jesus Christ his only Son, our Lord.

Wt. is uneasy about referring to Jesus as "our Lord".

3. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary.

This one OK

4. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.

Wt doesn't like the word "crucified" or cross

5. He descended into hell. On the third day he rose again.

Wt. would never accept that Jesus went to hell after he died.

6. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty.

Wt believes only a spirit creature who looks like Jesus went to heaven - Michael the Archangel

7. He will come again to judge the living and the dead.

Wt. teaches that the dead atone for themselves and will not be judged for their sins.

8. I believe in the Holy Spirit,

Wt. believes the Holy Spirit is like electricity

9. the holy catholic (universal) Church, the communion of saints,

Wt. would never accept the concept of a universal body of believers known only to Christ.

10. the forgiveness of sins,

Wt. teaches that since 1935 new believers are not justified (forgiveness of sins)

11. the resurrection of the body,

Wt. teaches that people are not resurrected in their body, but are recreated as spirits.

12. and the life everlasting.

Wt teaches "life everlasting" is postponed until after you have been good for 1000 years if you wre lucky enough to survive Armageddon.

Amen.

Wt is at odds with the Apostles Creed, which was a pity statement of faith regarding what it meant to be a Christian.

21

Examples of Watchtower flawed interpretation of Bible passages?

by Vanderhoven7 in

asking jehovah’s witnesses to interpret specific passages is a great way to demonstrate their interpretive abuse.

got any clear examples?.

Sea Breeze

Could the "slave" be illustrative of a group? Perhaps, but that does not mean it's them.

@Journeyman

In the King James Version, which is what Witchtower used for over 75 years, the indefinte article was used - "Who really is a faithful and wise servant"?

It was a general rhetorical question. To try and make it sound specific, the WT zeroed in on the next sentence what contained the phrase "that servant". Then, they would pull out some mumbo jumbo about how the facts show that Charles Rusell is "THAT SERVANT". (repeat over and over)

Later when they printed their own bible, and after Rusell died, they added the definite article "the" to the question to make it appear specific.

"Who really is the faithful and discrete slave". They then pull the same gimmick and say something like all available evidence points the the governing body of JW's as the composite faithful and discreed slave , yada, yada, yada.

Lots of uneducated, unsaved people fall for these word scams.

A simple question meant for self introspection for believers, was turned into a wild goose chase after a false christ. People are very easily deceived.

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince someone they have been fooled" - Mark Twain

1

Why Did God Become Man?

by Sea Breeze in

jw
friends

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy2ptaan9pc&ab_channel=theslothmonkey.

.

do you think the explanation by paul harvey is plausible?.

Sea Breeze

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY2pTAAn9pc&ab_channel=theslothmonkey

Do you think the explanation by Paul Harvey is plausible?

21

Examples of Watchtower flawed interpretation of Bible passages?

by Vanderhoven7 in

asking jehovah’s witnesses to interpret specific passages is a great way to demonstrate their interpretive abuse.

got any clear examples?.

Sea Breeze

Watchtower likes to play games by changing definitions of words and phrases. They highlight something and repeat it over and over until it takes on an altered meaning. and a life of its own. This is how they created a false Christ figure in Russell; by putting a spin on a simple phrase: "THAT SERVANT".

The WT used the KJV until they replaced it with their own bible in the 1960's.

Mt. 24: 45-47 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

THE MAKING OF A FALSE CHRIST FIGURE:

“The Lord Jesus, in his great prophetic statement in Matthew 24:45-47, made known the fact that at the end of the age he would be present and would have a special servant whom he would “make ruler over all his house to give meat in due season to the household.” For many years Christian people of all denominations have been looking for the manifestation of that promised servant. For several years some have recognized, and now many more are recognizing, that Pastor Russell is that servant.” -The Watchtower November 1, 1917 page 319.

“The view generally held, that Pastor Russell himself was the “faithful and wise servant” of Matthew 24:45-47, created considerable difficulty for some years. The insistence that Russell had been “that servant” led many to regard Russell in what amounted actually to creature worship. They believed that all the truth God had seen fit to reveal to his people had been revealed to Russell, and now nothing more could be brought forth because “that servant” was dead.” -Jehovah’s Witnesses in the Divine Purpose page 69.

“There was some resistance from those who were not progressive and who did not have a vision of the work that lay ahead. Some insisted on living in the past, in the time of Pastor Russell, when the brothers in general had viewed him as the sole channel of Scriptural enlightenment. It was the published and accepted thought down till 1927 that he was “that servant” of Matthew 24:45.” -Jehovah’s Witnesses in the Divine Purpose page 95.

“Jesus clearly indicated that during his second presence he would have amongst the church a faithful and wise servant, through whom he would give to the household of faith meat in due season. The evidence is overwhelming concerning the Lord’s second presence, the time of the harvest, and that the office of “that servant” has been filled by Brother Russell. This is not man worship by any means. It matters not who Charles T. Russell was-whether he was a doctor, a hod-carrier or a seller of shirts. St. Peter was a fisherman: St. Paul a lawyer. But these matters are immaterial. above all, these men were the chosen vessels of the Lord.

Regardless of his earthly avocation, above all, Brother Russell was the Lord’s servant. Then to repudiate him and his work is equivalent to a repudiation of the Lord, upon the principle heretofore announced. -The Watchtower May 1, 1922 page 132.

"And just like that, Jesus was gone".

Forrest Gump (character) - Wikiwand

21

Is Jesus a Created Being? Debate with a Pastor

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/ro6q_osgkns?si=hyxualluhruwvjnb.

—colossians 1:15 from the nwt says it plain as day: “he is the image of the invisible god, the firstborn of all creation.” that’s not vague; it’s got a punch.

“firstborn” and “creation” sit side by side, and in greek, that second word is “ktisis,” which means the physical stuff—trees, stars, you name it.

Sea Breeze

Not sure of your point Raimundo.

But, Jesus was not begotten in eternity past as a creation called The Son. He was begotten when he was made flesh:

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. - John 1

So what does begotten (monogenes) mean? According to the Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (BDAG, 3rd Edition), monogenes has two primary definitions. The first definition is "pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship."

Jesus is unique, one of a kind; being both fully man and begotten by God sharing his essence - thus fully God.

21

Is Jesus a Created Being? Debate with a Pastor

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/ro6q_osgkns?si=hyxualluhruwvjnb.

—colossians 1:15 from the nwt says it plain as day: “he is the image of the invisible god, the firstborn of all creation.” that’s not vague; it’s got a punch.

“firstborn” and “creation” sit side by side, and in greek, that second word is “ktisis,” which means the physical stuff—trees, stars, you name it.

Sea Breeze

@Halcon -

If his heart is right, no. The evidence of that is if that person continues to grow by the leadings of the Holy Spirit. But can a person believe Jesus is the Son of God and still have a heart "not right before God"? That's the question here.That would be a tragedy I'm sure you would agree.

Acts 8

13 Simon [Magnus] himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw....

18 When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19 and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”

20 Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God.

Some people come to Jesus with weird motives; motives that are something other than complete surrender to Jesus as the highest authority, as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. If they belong to Christ, the Holy Spirit will get them on track in due time. If not, they will continue to embrace heresies, looking for loopholes, escape clauses, and pursuing personal recognition of one sort or another.

Some very early church fathers stated that Simon Magnus went on to found Gnosticism, a system of heretical, anti-christian thought that continues to this day.

But hey, he believed Jesus was the Son of God.